Discussion: Advertising in Education

We welcome an open debate on the access that companies have to Irish classrooms and specific commercial schemes. Review the brief guidelines listed in the form on the right and then please share your opinion here.

Don't forget to also send us a request to receive email updates from the campaign.

The most recent comment displays at the top.

Survey shows huge shortfall in funding for primaries

PARENTS are being forced to pay an education 'stealth' tax to make up the shortfall in State funding for primary schools.

A new survey revealed that parents are paying a third of the day-to-day running costs of schools.

The survey was carried out by the Irish National Teachers Organisation.

Schools make up the shortfall through voluntary subscriptions, charity walks, readathons, race nights, golf classics, social evenings for parents, raffles, cake sales, sales of work, book sales, school lotto, Christmas Concerts and school plays or shows.

TUI slams govt funding of IT hardware in schools

Half of all IT equipment in the country's classrooms is now obsolete, according to the Teachers Union of Ireland President Tim O'Meara.

It's accusing the Government of adopting a 'short-sighted' approach to computers, by failing to fund IT hardware properly.

The union also says that new funds announced under the National Development Plan still amount to less than half of what England spends on IT per pupil.

One of the most useful applications of IT technology is educational software. It allows teachers to deliver lectures with more impact than ever in history. Quizzes can be put online and graded electronically. ETC. That is one reason why many young technology industries target schools. But many older, more-established companies, aware of the new dimensions that could be brought to the institution of education, try to remain prominent and visible by promoting old-fashioned methods, that don't necessarily improve the quality of education.

In answer to how to fund alternatives to store-sponsored equipment, how about taxes? Or parental contributions? At least they are straightforward, transparent and don't involve kids in advertising

The Campaign for Commercial-Free Education will hold a workshop for teachers and parents in Sligo Education Centre on Wednesday 14th March at 7.30 pm. All are welcome.

EU report slams Ireland's PE facilities

A European Parliament report has ranked Ireland close to the bottom when it comes to the provision of physical education classes in primary schools.

A total of six out of ten Irish primary schools are judged to have inadequate facilities and equipment for PE. The report compares physical education provisions across the EU. Irish schools give less time to the subject than almost any other European country with a minimum curriculum guideline of just 30 minutes a week. Only Britain scores as low.

The report finds that three quarters of Irish schools do not even reach the minimum of 30 minutes and some Irish primary schools do not teach any PE at all.

A spokesperson for the Minister for Education, Mary Hanafin, pointed out that another report last week found that Irish children were the second most active across more than 30 countries. But the INTO has said the report highlights the lack of PE facilities and equipment in Irish schools.

Check this out http://www.richardboydbarrett.org/html/why.htm Commercialism in schools being raised as election issue in the minister's constituency

Why do the RSA feel the need to plaster commercial messages all over their safety material. Check out www.safetoschool.ie sponsored by MACE supermarkets.

Of course childrens' posters must include a charachter from the MACEYS the cartoon family featuring in their TV ads.

First Renault and now this. Do the RSA have any regard for teachers whatsoever??

Check out an article I wrote on this issue at http://www.indymedia.ie/article/80708

I see the commercially sponsored schemes as a distraction from the fact that the government is no longer funding certain schools activities. Instead of asking where else the money will come from why not ask why its not coming from the taxes we are paying. I don't want to resort to coercion of students and families. Instead lets go to the source of the problem.

COuld those advocating commercial free education please tell me what they have in mind as an alternative?

The Credit union poster competition gave me, a not very artistic child, the motivation to try draw a good picture. Generally, I would have been happier doing schoolwork.

Should Cumann na mBunscol games be banned because the cups are sponsored?

Where is the PE equipment going to come from if schools don't avail of the schemes lauched by Super Valu etc.?

Without the commercial element there would be precious few competitions of any nature in schools. The schools would also be lacking in equipment.

A very poor budget for schools and education.

There was an expectation that capitation grants may have been increased or some specific curricular grants made available for ICT, science or PE. Unfortunately the lack of investment in education remains and no-doubt commercial interests will be ready to step into the breach and exploit the school market.

Well done on the campaign guys. Reckon computers are becoming increasingly important in the workforce and this should be reflected in the schools. The bulk of this will have to be paid for the government in any case. Infact, it is probably an extremely productive investment in the future of the country if we want to compete in high-tech industries.

Thanks- must check it out. Michael Martin introducing legislation to outlaw advertising directed at children which results in them pestering their folks into buying particular products or shopping in specific places. This should be extended to schools? Wonder what Hanafin thinks?

There's a good article on page20 of today's daily mail on junk food advertising to kids

Very nice new scheme lauched recently - involved children developing games suitable for all children in a schoolyard. Its being administered by the INTO in conjunction with the Dept of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It shows that not all competitions and intiatives in school have to be commercially biased. I'd urge anyone who can to enter and we'll try to get a little more information on it here soon.

Visit:www.into.ie/ROI/WhatsNew/Announcements/Other/GamesWeCanAllPlay/

Public Meeting:
Education & Privatisation for Profit - the Dangers for Public Education:

Central Hotel, Exchequer St , Dublin 2
Friday Nov. 24th, 6pm

Speakers:
Prof. Kathleen Lynch (Equality Studies, UCD)

Joe Fogarty (Campaign for Commercial Free Education)

Dr. David Carey, (Froebel College of Ed., Coordinator of Special Education and Programme Development)

Organised By People Before Profit Alliance
http://www.people-before-profit.org

Welcome back! Many thanks to our ICT manager for his work in repairing the Board - there is much to discuss.

- Once off PE grant to primary schools - New reviews coming on AIB Build a Bank / Kellogs National Breakfast Together Day / SuperValu Active Minds. - The push for regulation of commercial activity in schools.

We welcome all opinions on advertising and marketing in schools.

Not sure if it would John P. Over the past year or 2 there has been an increased awareness around issues of corporate sponsorship and its implications. There have been 2 RTE news reports both posted on this site and the newspapers and radio are full of stuff on this. Think that no matter the phrasing people are intelligent enough to know what it means.

such a poll- question invites such a response. if the poll question was should companys's sponser schools/ engage in commercialism so as to provide schools with necessary equipment, which they otherwise would not receive i expect the majority would be in favour of it.

Please see poll being carried out by RTE on http://www.rte.ie/. It asks: Should schoolchildren be used in commercial product testing? As of 18/06/06 results are: Yes: 21.74%, No: 73.15% and Maybe: 5.12%

Congrats to all behind this website, it's very informative. I saw a link to it from an RTE news item on TV.

I agree very much with your opinions as laid out on this site. The FF/PD government intend to future the influence of private enterprise with PPPs, am I correct in saying that.

I remember reading about schools having to outsource cleaning, etc. and so-called Public-Private schools. Perhaps you could investigate this and make it a main issue for the site?

Also, the Church's exit from education is a concern. The Church is commerically neutral as we know (but not morally), but the new VEC-style managements will not be.

Thanks to everyone who gave a hand at the Educate Together AGM on Saturday - Anna, Rosie, Barbara, Rosie, Allan and Niall.

We displayed some of the many commercial materials that arrive in schools and raised the subject in the workshops during the day. Educate Together's ethos being Democratic and Child-Centred would appear to make them natural allies of this Campaign.

Thanks to the popularity of the discussion forum, and suggestions from people like Brendan, we have begun to archive posts. We will archive about 50 at a time.

Latest commercial scheme from TESCO - they just keep coming - The Tesco Great School Run. Take a look at www.greatschoolrun.ie. Is there any other company with such an insatiable appetite for in-school promotion as Tesco? 4 schemes this year, a 100 per cent increase on last year. Will post an eval. card once the materials arrive at the school. Very Little Help!

This discussion forum has gotten too big to follow. I suggest you archive the older messages.

didnt hear about the centra comp. think any teacher who encourages it through school must have very little to do! would stay clear!!

What ever guidelines are drawn up I believe the guidelines should be formulated by INTO alone in the interest of protecting its members from exploitation by companies and in the interest of 'serving education' with a view to filtering out schemes and not by IBEC whose serve industry and whose position will no doubt be to consolidate their members right to target schools with marketing materials and commercial token schemes.

The text of the motion passed resoundingly at this years INTO congress read as follows.

Congress: 1. Deplores the underfunding of education which has starved schools of resources and public funding. 2. Expresses its concern at the growing commercialisation of education and the growing number of schemes that require teachers to promote products in classrooms. 3. Calls on the CEC to immediately devise and circulate a policy on commercialism in schools that will support teachers promoting a commercial free education in primary school classrooms. 4. Calls on CEC to launch a campaign to bring education spending into line with our European counterparts.

Any thoughts on what form those guidelines should take?

No, Ann, there is no truth in that whatsoever - none of the campaign officers are looking for any door into politics. Having been involved from the start, I can categorically state that personal and party politics have nothing to do with the campaign.

The Centra competition was not sent to schools but did encourage school- supported entries. The commercial bias was ridiculous - draw a picture to show Centra at the heart of your community. I sincerely hope teachers didn't touch it.

is the colouring comp being run through schools or is it aimed at a local/ community level?

Anyone see the new scheme by Centra (part of the Musgrave Group- which includes Super Valu)? Its a colouring competition- where the theme is Centra in the Community. If so what are peoples views?

Elaine, the peace process has been brokered, thanks :)

Great to hear you use computers every day. I am a big computer fan, however do worry about their use.

Any way back to the debate....

At last we can agree on something John :) Computers should only be a minor issue in the wider debate.

On our other bone of contention I propose this compromise - In my classroom computers are basic tools, as I use them for one reason or another every day, as I believe the children in my care should be given the skills to function in modern society. I do (sadly) acknowledge that in plenty of classrooms computers and ICT in general are merely decoration. But that is an issue for elsewhere.

Elaine, with all due respect, the computer is still an extra in the classroom. Because computers are used in all aspects of modern life why does that make it an essential?

My main issue here is that as some one that has been training teachers in IT since 1997, since then I have seen that some teachers are innovative but many teachers are not interested in using the computer in the classroom for various reasons.

However let's not let computers dominate this debate, which is about commercialism

John, you denied saying things would be handled better if done commercially, but you did. You seem to be purposely misreading Niall's comments - therefore I have not posted any incorrect comments about you - thank you. The use of digital cameras is specifically mentioned in the Teachers guidelines of the History, Geography, Science and Visual Arts curricula. The use of computers is reccomended in all subjects but P.E. I would say this makes these items, basic tools!

The computer is an extra, please be clear on this What century do you think this is? Computers are used in all aspects of modern life, it is only slightly more ridiculous to say that pen and paper are extras.

Sorry John but you are again incorrect! The state do not provide buildings. Up until recently the state dodged its responsibilty with schools by leaving the provision of buildings and management of same in the hands of religious orders. Now that the orders are in decline, the state has decided to bring in the private sector through PPP (Public Private Partnership) to provide school buildings. Also, if teachers are expected to implement a massive curriculum, which requires in some cases to use computer and digital equipment then one can consider these items basic.

Elaine I disagree that digital cameras and computers are the basic tools. Many schools have computers and digital cameras and only one teacher uses them

To say they are the basic tool shows you have been taken in by the commericialism. Let's not get to a point where we believe that these items are basic. They are useful when used correctly.

The teacher is the basic tool. The knowledge, energy and resources they can produce are the basics.

You seem to have confused the issue, the basic tools are provided by the state, classrooms, buildings, boards etc. The computer is an extra, please be clear on this. Please also ensure that you don't post incorrect comments about me, thank you

ARRRGHHH!! John you are so frustrating!! You make comments then deny them (your point after Anna below). Conversely, you misread others' comments and attribute remarks to them that they did not make.

Education in Ireland (primary) is run by the state, it then follows that it should be funded by the state! These days, footballs, hurling helmets, digital cameras and computers are the basic tools needed to teach the curriculum that teachers are required (by state law) to deliver. Do Inland Revenue employees fundraise for calculators? Do Gardaí collect tokens for handcuffs?

Just to make it absolutely clear for you, State Run should mean State Funded!

1. My point is SIMPLE not simplistic. 2. Below John said: look at the joke that is the broadband scheme. If this was done commercially it would have been handled better... 3. I answered the question on govt fund a number of times. Just to reiterate- we ( honest PAYE workers) pay taxes, these taxes are collected, this is used for public good- many believe that education is such a good and that taxes should be used to fund it. Education should not be privatised or funded by corporate interests whose only aim is profit and not the educational needs of our children. That is democracy- not the market! What do people think of recent vote by INTO members on commercialism?

You take a very simplistic view. Again you failed to point out where I made aforementioned comments, re commerical ventures handling things better, also you fail to answer why the Government should pay for everything.

Your comment is not very coherent. That aside the argument is based on mistruth that democracy and the market are the same thing- however, nothing could be further from the truth. The market is based upon Adam Smiths 'hidden hand' determining prices- regulating demand and supply. There is no democratic input inot this process. Democracy is decision making by the majority not by the market.

Niall you said you say If this was done commercially it would have been handled better- says who, I did not say that, answer me why the government should pay for everything? Surely in a democratic society this would not be the case? We live in a democratic society and for many things the market decides. We all know that the gov. give money to causes that are politically profitable, education it seems is not, but sports etc are! It's a tricky situation

sorry, misunderstood you, didnt realaise it was corporation tax you were talking about- yeah, i think that's a fair point to make, and good idea

I think the way you address this is raise corporation tax presently at 12.5%- I'm sure the companies who are dying to throw their money at schools would not complain if the government placed 0.5-1% on top of corporation tax and ring fence that for education and that way all these caring sharing companies like Tesco and Independant Newspapers eager to do the right thing for education can all do so. I'm sure there are not many people out there would would disagree with that.

so are you suggesting that we pay higher taxes. i do see your point but if raising taxes is the issue, you have to be prepared to make that sacrifice and not complain.... i imagine alot of people would be disgruntled by this if it came to the crunch

Education is a universal right & society should as you say play its part. I see that happening through free to all education- equal opportunity to all. Nothing stopping the government using resources from public taxes to ensure that education has all it needs. Education is vital to society and should receive what resources it needs. You do that is through the tax system so that everyone gives their share. Not when they companies feel like it- but through companies paying proper taxes. Education is too important to leave it up to the ad hoc whim of the marketplace. I believe it is reasonable and entirely realistic to expect the depart to supply everything needed to education.

niall, of course education is a universal thing. that doesnt mean that the department has the money to finance everything that every school demands or needs. society has its part to play. fundraising and sponsorship have always been a main source of income for schools. it's purely unrealistic to expect the depart to supply everything to schools!!

John, you say If this was done commercially it would have been handled better- says who? Some facts to back up your argument? Plus why can't the department provie everything to schools? Access to education is a universal right- no? And that would include to all not just those who can afford it. Its is a credit to Irish teachers who took a stand this weekend against the continuing commercialism of schools.

Thanks for the heads up Simon, the change has been made. That change had been made for the email addresses in the early days of the site's development but those titles had slipped by me. We'll call it a typo.

Congratulations on the representatives who did a great job representing the campaign at the INTO meeting!

Well done at congress - your success just shows what a bit of hard work can achieve. Can I ask however, that you might consider updating your gendered titles such as chairman and vice-chairman. The use of this language is sending out a message of exclusivity and needs to be changed with haste.

John - In answer to your question it's a bit of both, I'm fairly computer literate and do quite a few computer based projects, but most of the time I (and the children) end up using my personal laptop because the computers in my class can't handle any new software, and don't even have Word !! On the other hand there are a lot of teachers who are not computer literate, in all in-service training the ICT element is not included - how many employers do you know who would install equipment then let their employees figure it out for themselves?

I want to congratulate the Campaign for a lot of hard work at INTO Congress over the last few days. Great to see you had your motion passed. Pity there wasn't time for debate on what is, without doubt an important issue. Well done.

Maria, are the computers useless, or is it because teachers have a lack of training on them? Any computer out there can be made to do useful things. It depends on the expectations of the user(s), this is not saying anything negative about any poster here, however sometimes people can use the excuse that the computer is too old, or too this

Maria, you're right - the under funding is the central issue. The government should provide the computers and teacher training. Their under funding has allowed multinationals to enter the classroom and their sole interest is profit/public image not education. I think the government, because of a lack of opposition, has grown comfortable with this. I agree with CCFE's evaluation that PLCs are welcome to help out schools if they want as fulfilling their ‘social responsibility’, but drop the logos and purchase necessary rule.

John - in a submission you posed a valid question - Has the intro of computers helped children to a large extent. - well speaking from my own experience - No - for two reasons. First we have not been given training in how to use ICT in the classroom and even if we had - the computers most teachers have in their classrooms/computer rooms are so substandard that they're absolutely useless. And this includes the Tesco ones. Again we're back to proper gov. funding!

Vin, take your point, well the government place money where money will do something for them, GAA etc.

Afterall i suppose school kids can't vote yet :)

that then leaves us back to square one, since government won't fund, in come multinationals

John, I agree with you to an extent, research into the effect computers have had on child education is far from clear, but in order to have a modern education computer literacy is essential. For me the real issue of this debate is a lack of government funding (how can schools - or hospitals for that matter - still go under funded in a country which had a €6.7bn surplus in its budget?).

Vin, you said re my post it is their function to provide adequate resources for a decent education - where do you draw the line on this?

They do provide, but they can't provide everything to every school. From your post it seems that you feel that computers are a needed thing in schools. A question to be answered at another time is our computers necessary or are we putting computers into classrooms because we should? look at everything the dep of ed has done since 97 - has the intro of computers helped children to a large extent?

fair play with the campaign- but i feel that an attack should be made on the department of education rather on these companies. there are no proper facilities for sports, music, i.t in many schools, and the rate of investment per child at primary school is apalling. one in five children between the ages of 5 and 12 are overweight in ireland, and until the department does something about it, these companies will continue to offer much needed facilities to schools, and schools would be crazt to refuse. as i said, well done but it's no use attacking tesco, super value etc. if we cut them out we've nothing. gotta aim at the department

Archive: (most recent displays at the top)

• Archive 2
• Archive 1